30 Questions with Thirty West
Featuring Jonathan Koven
In November of 2023, Thirty West Publishing House embarked on its most ambitious #AntiWriMo project to date: The Ternion. This three-novel series is written by 9 authors, all written in one month. The Ternion is an experiment in creativity, community, adaptability, and stress; and it was successful.
Today, we are proud to take a moment to highlight one of the many people behind the pen involved in this incredible collaboration.
Jonathan Koven lives in Philadelphia with his wife Delana and their two cats Peanut Butter and Keebler. He works as a technical writer, and reads poetry manuscripts for Moonstone Arts. A Pushcart Prize nominee, Jonathan has both fiction and poetry published—by Assure Press, Animal Heart Press, 300 Days of Sun, and more. He is the author of the poetry chapbook Palm Lines released in 2020, the award-winning fiction novella Below Torrential Hill released in 2021, and the poetry collection Mystic Orchards.
How old were you when you first started writing?
As far back as I can remember. My brother and I had these big books with blank pages that we wrote in as children, before we even had “writers notebook” time at school. We would also give these elaborate stories to each of our stuffed animals and toys.
They had their own home planets, families, personalities, and everything. We would have these long discussions about it; we’d act out these stories. Looking back on it now, that’s probably when my earliest joys of creativity surfaced. I wrote a lot of stories, lyrics to imaginary songs, and poems just on my own time. It was how I expressed myself and something I’d never questioned.
[We wrote] stories about heroic preteens encountering interdimensional spirits and portals (“Sinister: The Horse’s Realm”); one about a grieving prince born in the shape of a cube, searching for his true father (“Cubeevil”); a full manuscript-length novel about my childhood dog who uncovers his prophesied superpowers. That was intended as a series though we sadly never got there.
I played with more thematic stories in middle school. There was one in the perspective of a raindrop, another about a sailor who buries his emotions. Of course, I was only a kid then. I’ve considered revisiting a couple of those short stories, maybe completely rewriting them as an adult. It would be a fun experiment, if nothing else.
What is your favorite part of the ANTIWRIMO project this year?
So many things. Let’s go with… allowing myself to be influenced by my co-authors and trusting myself to go places I’d normally avoid. I’m so glad to have gone out of my comfort zone with this story. I think all three of us did. But, for me in particular, I’m proud to say that it strikes a tone I haven’t employed enough as a writer—honestly, maybe a tone reminiscent of those breezy stories I’d written as a teenager. That’s not to say this novel isn’t thought-provoking; it absolutely is a serious, emotional story. But there are some passages that I believe to be hilarious, and it was a delight tapping into that energy while writing. I’d say Spark Bird is a perfect mesh of our styles.
In your opinion, what is the best piece you’ve ever written?
Same answer I’ll always give for this question. I’m currently writing it!
Which writers had the most influence on your style? On your content?
I’ve always been big on modernism as a whole. I love reading so many of its authors from all over the world and from its separate movements; Fernando Pessoa, Virginia Woolf, Clarice Lispector; the poets, the symbolists, the decadents, the surrealists.
But then, I also love more traditional storytellers who write with their hearts like John Irving, Robert Walser, Haruki Murakami, Carson McCullers… More recent favorites are Geoff Rickley’s Someone Who Isn’t Me (an incredible fiction/memoir/metaphysical prose-poem) and Ocean Vuong’s work (can’t wait for his next one).
What is the biggest challenge you've overcome as a writer?
It’s very hard to set realistic expectations after I’m finished with a piece that I’m proud of writing. Especially if you’ve poured your heart and soul into it. There’s a high that comes from releasing it into the wild, so-to-speak, but you have to stay patient and humble while being its lead advocate. You might feel like you’ve earned readers through dedication, toil, and passion alone—which isn’t necessarily true.
You do everything you can to get it in others’ hands, but don’t forget to revel in the personal accomplishment of it all. Sales, whether your family and friends read/like it, the weird sadness of letting such a massive personal endeavor go out into the world to be consumed… there’s a lot to distract you from the achievement itself. Let it push you toward a new project to immerse yourself in. I think it’s just a matter of accepting the role of an artist—to remember you’re doing it for the art, not for an audience.
What project should you be working on right now?
Work for my actual job, haha.
What was your first publication?
I was the editor-in-chief of my high school literary magazine. Naturally, I published a bunch of my own shitty poems. I also published a few things in my college’s lit journal. Then, after getting more comfortable submitting my work, I published more poems; I had an excerpt of my first novella published; some of my short-stories found homes (one of which was translated into Russian—a horror story titled “Laila”). In 2020, it was through Philly’s small press Toho Publishing that I published my first full book, a poetry chapbook titled Palm Lines.
What does your drafting process look like?
I’m a slow, methodical writer. I usually outline (most of) my entire plot beforehand, then write from the sentence and sound-level. I write fiction like my poetry, and poetry like my fiction, and I’m an extremely meticulous editor. To compare, it took me over seven years to finish Below Torrential Hill (my first novella). Granted that was my first fiction book, so it was a learning experience. My other poetry books took at least a year, each. To think that we’ve completed Spark Bird in a few months, that it’ll be in readers’ hands soon, is astounding. Even with three authors, it was not easy.
How do you deal with critics and trolls?
Critics are important (trolls, not so much). I don’t always agree with them, but I value and respect the cultural role of a critic. I often think back to this one review my novella had received. It was mostly negative and seemed to misunderstand the thematic message, but it compared my prose to one of my all-time favorite writers. My emotions were so mixed reading that review. I was at once flattered by the comparison and hurt by the criticism. Generally, I understand that my writing is stylistic and not for everyone. I know I put my heart into my work, I do my best to make it sing, and that’s what matters. Overall, I appreciate my art being made into a conversation piece, so if a critic is doing that, then that’s a net-positive.
What book do you wish you could read again for the first time?
There’s a lot, but I can always read those again for the second time. There’s so much unread on my list but I still maintain that re-reading is vastly underrated. You uncover new layers, pick up on things missed the first time. The best books are the ones worth multiple readings.
What kind of writing is your favorite? Why?
I enjoy reading authors that are unafraid to sacrifice clarity in exchange for beauty. I enjoy books that feel like lyrical playgrounds, rather than stories written in rigid prose that’s sanitized and made sterile just to be broadly palatable for a wide audience. I also like character-driven and language-driven narratives; a plot is important, but I don’t mind something more painterly, quiet, or abstract. I find my heart as a reader is in the expression of human ideas, relationships, emotions; not as much a dramatic, weaving plot.
Which point of view is your favorite to write from and why?
I enjoy writing characters who want to rewrite their own stories; characters on the verge of epiphany or reinvention; characters haunted by their own circumstances, egos, perceptions; who are sensitive and seekers in every sense of the word; characters who desire liberation, either from themselves or from something external.
Are there any major themes that span your work as a whole?
Definitely. I’d even go as far to say that Palm Lines, Below Torrential Hill, and my most recent collection Mystic Orchards are in conversation with one another. Beyond thematic similarities, there are motifs, images, and actual turns-of-phrase shared throughout each book. Not quite at the same level, but there is a continuation of that exploration with Spark Bird. I think (with some variance) I’ll always create art around the same unanswerable questions. Don’t all artists? If we’re lucky enough to sustain our wonder, we can return to that original yearning, that mystery. All that said, I don’t necessarily love speaking on my work’s artistic themes so explicitly. It feels like imposing a personal interpretation when I’d much rather listen to others for their take.
What media besides books inspire you?
With this novel in particular, music! Our main character Simón creates ambient soundscapes, and so I listened to a ton of that while writing and editing. We actually built a playlist inspired by the story. There’s dub techno, vaporwave, downtempo, drone, fourth world jazz-ambient, prog-electronic, environmental, and other IDM and ambient artists included on there (and mentioned throughout the book). I’ve always loved a wide range of music, including (and especially) ambient music, so writing about a musician within the genre was fun. It also introduced me to artists I’d never previously listened to and would probably be part of Simón’s record collection.
What are some of your favorite writing-related resources, that you would recommend to aspiring writers?
I don’t use too many of these, but I have used some websites. PlotFactory is one, a great organizational resource for outlining a novel. There are also plenty of great tools available on the official Nanowrimo website—templates, charts, and more. I made use of these when I attempted the exercise myself in 2022. As far as craft books, I unfortunately haven’t read too many of these yet though there’s probably great value in them. Any writing or editing practice is worth trying if it supposedly works wonders for someone else. Some amazing books on writing that I have read are Madness, Rack, and Honey by Mary Ruefle, Letters to a Young Poet by Rainer Maria Rilke, and Spring and All by William Carlos Williams.
What are the top five books on your TBR list?
I’m currently reading 2666 by Robert Bolaño and Sens-Plastique by Malcolm de Chazal, both which will take some time to finish. They rule so far, though. I don’t know if I have a top five on my TBR, just because there are too many to choose from.
How has your writing changed over time, and what do you attribute that to?
I try to change with each project, while maintaining a key element, which is my voice. I think form should match the content, so I hope that comes through. All my short-stories feel different from one another (in my opinion). I like to call Below Torrential Hill decadent-melancholy, and it’s written that way for a reason. Spark Bird’s vibe is noticeably different, and that’s for a reason too—not just because it was written by three distinct voices.
Is writing your full-time job?
That’d be the dream, right? No, I work as a technical writer. Big finance tech. Boring stuff. Writing poetry and fiction is my passion.
What does your editing process look like?
The editing process for Spark Bird was the most structured edit I’ve ever done. That’s mostly thanks to Julian, who proposed the brilliant method to construct a retrospective dual timeline of external event chronology vs. subtext/internal chronology. We were able to fine-tune everything from there. As always, my favorite part is line-edits, refining every inch of the manuscript from a sound and sentence level. In terms of major
developmental edits, the retrospective outline was incredibly helpful. After that, I’ll never edit the same way again.
What does “made it” look like to you?
A world where people read my books and talk about them, recommend them to friends, discuss theories, message me to tell me my words mean something to them.
What would your teenage self say about your writing now?
My hope is that he would be impressed by its improved quality, but he’d also wonder why I haven’t kept up the same pace as back then.
What’s your favorite underrated tv show and why?
Too many to come up with one, but I’ll list a bunch because they all deserve more love! The OA. Rectify. Halt and Catch Fire. DEVS. Scavengers Reign. I May Destroy You. The Knick. High Maintenance. The Midnight Gospel. I’m A Virgo. Six Feet Under. The Killing. Maniac. Forever. The Leftovers. Servant. We Own This City. Ramy. Search Party. Atlanta.
Who is your go to character in Mario Kart?
Yoshi, Birdo, or Monty Mole (for the new one).
In your opinion, what classic novels are overrated?
This question irks me. The classics deserve more respect than they’re given these days, in my opinion. I’m not big on anti-intellectualism. There’s also a difference in “overrated” and not liking something. But if I must answer, maybe (most of) Hemingway’s work. Also, Kerouac. Neither of them do much for me.
What was the hardest part of working with multiple authors for the ANTIWRIMO project?
The hardest part of ANTIWRIMO for me, surprisingly, was not working with multiple authors. Relenting control and building a shared trust somehow came easy, once I got past the mental block of it being a group project. I’m also lucky that I was grouped with two other incredible artists. Julian and Danny are the best partners I could ask for. The most difficult piece, in my opinion, was the deadline. Drafting a novel takes more than a month—that’s a fact. Revising it into a good novel takes even longer. Granted, we received an extension (thanks Thirty West!), but a novel is never really done. Usually I work on larger projects until I can recite it from memory and I become sick of it. I could spend another year fine-tuning Spark Bird, but all the fun and the momentum came from an approaching finish line. Even with three brains and an extension, we sacrificed an immense chunk of our time nearly every day these past few months to deliver what we’d envisioned for this story. Looking at the final product, I think we’ve exceeded our own expectations, but that’s due to a titanic amount of effort on all our parts.
Have you ever tried NANOWRIMO? Did it work out?
I tried in 2022 with my own work-in-progress. I made major progress, and continued long into 2023, but still not close to finishing. But I’m glad to have kicked it off and I’m excited to return to working on it after Spark Bird.
What do you usually use as a bookmark? (And don’t you dare say DogEaring)
My beautiful, limited edition Below Torrential Hill custom bookmarks. I use a pink one for one book and a blue one for the other I’m reading.
Do you have any future projects you're excited about?
My own work-in-progress that I plan to return to after work on Spark Bird is complete. Definitely excited to come back to it with fresh eyes and having learned a lot from this experience. I’d also like to get back into submitting individual poems. There are a few drafts I have sitting around that have potential with some dusting-up.
How do you keep yourself motivated to write on those especially blocked days?
I write the part I’m in the mood to write. I don’t force myself through a scene that’s making me miserable. Or I take some time off. Authors need to avoid burnout at all costs—it can paralyze you from making any progress for weeks, months, sometimes years. Breaks are necessary, sometimes.
What were the first books you ever truly loved?
As a child, The Missing Piece by Shel Silverstein and Mary Pope Osborne’s Magic Tree House books.
Do you have more questions for Jonathan? Are you curious if he’ll ever release the childhood stories he crafted with his brother? Follow Thirty West for more updates and behind-the-scenes sneak peeks—just remember—Westies saw it first.
Spark Bird, part of The Ternion, is out now. You don’t want to miss this huge moment from Thirty West.
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